Legal Penalties. The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. Its also beyond debate that current production Sig quality is drastically inferior to what it once was, particularly the German made pieces. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. Yaaay! My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. Is it? The HK VP70 was made in 1970 when Gaston Glock was making curtain rods. 3. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. If it were a lowered tier manufacturer like a Taurus having allegations made against them, people would run with it without thinking twice. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. No, it doesnt. Golly didnt Sig catch he!! That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. The weapon had a history of going off unexpectedly when it was dropped at a certain angle. Again, these are examples the plaintiff in this case is using to support his claim that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. He takes your wallet and car and leaves the SIG. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. According to Section 22.05 of the Texas Penal Code, engaging in deadly conduct with a firearm is considered a felony of the third degree. And on the flip side of the coin is the decades of denial by Remington on the 700 which Ive seen firsthand. never got into the P320 It is to me a Range gun not a carry gun. Instead we see a Sig that is ran by Mr. Cohen of Kimber fame have repeated quality and product development failures. Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. I dont own a P320. My trust for Sig stopped after they produced the beloved Sig556xi Russian. My dad owned one and that is exactly what happened one time when he was using it. The real tell is that of all the cases, most are cops of some kind. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. The networks report didnt mention lawsuits filed by LEOs (or anyone else) against other gun makers claiming similar alleged design defects. The P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost . Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. People who know how to handle guns prudently and safely. Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. In 2021 you would think a company would understand MIM metallurgy. It was at that point that I knew the gun had a design flaw. She claims that her holstered P320 pistol went off while she was carrying it in her purse. I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/. Id read that for TMP, they got NASA to help in the design of the refit Enterprise. Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. It isnt the beginner woodworker who loses fingers. Its difficult to believe thats a coincidence. Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. Hey, Im glad theres somethings we agree on! Guess it hasnt dawned on them that: 1. Hes like the arrogant star QB on your favorite football teamyeah, you would never want to spend a weekend with him at the lake cabin, but your franchise would be little to nothing without him. Fact is most SF carry what they want and the Marine Recon I know very well who has friends in that community told me many in the Navy NSW program still carry the Mk 25, they don want a striker fired pistol that can hydrolock in water. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. Lastly, ship-wise I have to go with the TMP-era refit Enterprise, regardless of Captain. And the idea some random comment section P320 hater thinks theyre smarter & more knowledgeable than the Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard and Marine Corp combined regarding military pistol selection is just freaking laughable! , 54 people all shooting themselves. At least the Lion roars when he is hungry, the C.E.O smiles at you and when you turn your back he puts a knife right into it. "It has a clear capacity to fire without the trigger being pulled under certain conditions," said Hilton's lawyer, Jeffrey Bagnell. His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). None of the current lawsuits appear to be in any way related to the now-fixed drop safety issue and most, if not all of the allegations seem to involve upgraded pistols or those produced after the drop safety problem was identified by SIG. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM Theyve gotten tons of contracts because the gun is cheap, cheap, cheap to make. The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. Theres a couple of possibilities. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a [SIG] P320, said the statement, which was released Friday and posted to a U.S. online pro-industry publication, Soldier Systems. The moral of all of this is the reason Sig got the military contract was because they were selling guns at close to cost, they underbid Glock by a significant margin. The problem was strikers. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? But Im observant enough to see the same voices that said in 1985 that This new fangled Glock is a just a plastic toy! I dont care about the upgrade that should never happen. Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. I own Serpa holsters in multiple configurations (1911, Beretta 96, H&K, Springfield, etc) for most of the time theyve been around and I NEVER had an ND. Excellent work. It upgraded its P320 pistols in October 2018, before the middle school incident, spokeswoman Amanda. Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. Liberal, Conservative. . Going on Sigs reputation I bought a P320. Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. hate to tell you this but most lawnmowers with the handle bar stop get tied down. Glocks have gone off when people attempted to holster them and after they have holstered them, some times way later after holstering them like the fellow that got into his pickup truck. Asking for a friend. I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house. If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . All chasing that pot of gold at the end of litigation.. Not that big of a stretch when considering the lawyers beating the bushs for clients to add to the lawsuits, and the fact many of them will lose their jobs if its proven to NOT be the gun, but instead negligence on their part. Let us look at the history of other consumer products. Second, pardon us if were more than a little skeptical that the P320 in question or any other handgun fired when it was out of battery. . That being the case, the 320 is a cocked and locked striker-fired gun; However, it only has two safeties, unlike, say, a 1911, which has four: An inertial firing pin, a positive firing-pin locking safety, a manual sear-locking/blocking safety, and a trigger-bar-blocking grip safety. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. Would you? Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. three changes to the original design. But were way past the days of major league, internationally known gunmakers turning out complete crap, selling it and the public living with it. is the manual safety a kit you add? The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. Using an example from the first prong, we legitimately fault the user who shot himself in the palm, rightfully asking why in the WORLD his palm was in front of the muzzle when he set the gun down. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? It may be a rotten trigger, but it does highlight the fact it has a much lighter trigger compared to classic semi-autos and revolvers. The new guy sucks. In this version, Bridge City Officer Brittany Hilton tells her story of what she says happened when her P320 discharged as she was carrying it in her purse in what appears to be a SERPA holster (which has had its own problems, but thats another story). I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. Before the madness SIGS were expensive. The 1911 had one added, the FN 1905 had one added in 1906. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . . The incident with the P320 - a contender for a major Canadian Armed Forces procurement of thousands of pistols and holsters that has a Aug. 3 deadline for industry proposals - occurred at JTF-2's Dwyer Hill training range just west of Ottawa. Got a 40 SW P320 SC on my hip now, got one in 9mm within reach, so far neither has decided to trip the sear without my help. Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? The SIG P320 has been the subject of numerous lawsuits, including one class action case, in the U.S. over injuries sustained because of accidental discharges. The trigger bar has to push up on it, for it to release. Frankly, I think that ship is the best looking sci-fi ship design ever, with the Excelsior a very close second. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. Sig started out rough, but a lot of agencies have decided that their modular chassis system is the way of the future. Im more of a DS9 guy. The thing I hate is getting kicked around! Sig Sauer Inc. has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit over its P320 pistol, on which the Army 's Modular Handgun System is based. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. So your fanboy perjorative falls not only flat but false. And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. I wont argue theyre wrong, I dont own one, dont want to. He likens it to a bow-and-arrow, pulled taut. Time will tell if no. I bought a P320 and went through the voluntary upgrade. Its just dumb enough to sound like the plot to a damned Disney film. Im not even sure I would do that with my 92 or something else that can be both decocked and locked. Like many of our readers, weve been watching the slow drip, drip, drip of lawsuits accumulate over the past couple of years against SIG Sauer. Seems a bit apologetic to me. The Milwaukee police department has had 3 incidents of the Sig discharging while being in a holster sitting in a patrol car in 2023. Many gun makers have had issues with drop firing, unintended discharge, bad safeties This is a resource I compiled of semi-auto pistols that have been recalled or Upgraded for Safety related problems like Drop Firing, Safeties that Malfunction, Risk of Accidental Discharge, etc. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. A too light 1911 as some use in competition or God Forbid for carry- could jump the sear if dropped. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. Thats SIGs term for a recall. So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. The current allegations, then, are different, claiming that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. He would have been booted after the first time, but being a cop comes with some special privileges. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. My gun just went off! Were not saying that the suits against GLOCK are any more (or less) substantiated than those against SIG. Then after just three years without telling anyone they stopped all production including extra parts. With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. I also have a manual safety. At rest, cocked, it may very well have enough oomph to set some primers off. Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. They suck and Im awesome!, 2. As far as ships go, Im drawn to the original movie vessels because they look the most, to me, like something youd really see humans build in space in 300 years. The main difference is that the M&P never had the problem the p320 did with trigger mass. What I can say is that article reads like a hit piece on the individuals who may or may not of made mistakes with their firearms from someone who worships at the alter of sig. But as Officer Hilton says, There is no way anything could have gotten into my purseinto the trigger guard and pulled that trigger., This ABC report includes an interview with Joshua Harrison, a firearms expert hired by the network to examine the P320s design and give his opinion of its safety. So if, say, a person was to accidentally get shot through no fault of their own and need to sue, which specific cartridge/appendage combo would yield the most favorable least pain/permanent-damage : highest-payout ratio? But that's not working in the P320, he said. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? Because its flat out bull**it. Just 3 days ago, a Florida Corrections recruit killed herself by a negligent discharge during firearms training. On February 19, 2021, Military.com reported: A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 a pistol that the Army's new sidearm is based on accidentally discharged, firing a 9mm bullet into his right leg. The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. And they would not have done that for no reason at all. First, clearing a loaded firearm with a finger over the muzzle doesnt exhibit even cursory adherence to the Four Rules. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. They wouldnt have adopted it if was. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Theres still the P938 extractors snapping they refuse to acknowledge. I have no idea. I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. If the P320 was so great then why did special forces go to the Glock 19? Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. saw the video, doesnt explain how it bypasses striker pin safety. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. That a shirt tail or jacket cinch cord slips into a holster. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! The Collette suit, for example, lists 39 such discharges, all but five of which involved law enforcement officers. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. On the other hand, would we also condemn him for violating Rule 2 if the bullet had travelled through his outside wall, entered the adjacent house, and killed a resident thereof, or would we maybe, just maybe, place some blame on the manufacturer who created the pistol? It was expensive. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. Once word of that got out there was an avalanche of sexual harassment lawsuits against Fox news. Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. Over the top, hammy and with incredible choleric energy, but as he once said, when you trying to seriously sell a scene that has space ship with obvious carboard walls, christmas lights and a guy in a rubber gorilla suit with a plastic horn on its head, if you play it lowkey youre dead the audience is gonna focus on how cheesy it all is.
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