Peterson, I was interested to learn they'd have a debate. your opponent's ideas. But there is nonetheless the prospect of a catastrophe here. He's also quite On Slavoj Zizek and Jordan Peterson: Nature, Culture, and the Displacement of Time. What I Learned at the 'Debate' Between Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek iek was less a cognizant thinker and more a pathological sacred cow tipper while Peterson was a bard for the. It felt like that. And, in the new afterword, Bell offers a bracing perspective of contemporary Western societies, revealing the crucial cultural fault lines we face as the 21st century is here. It is just a version of what half a century ago in Europe was simply the predominant social democracy, and it is today decried as a threat to our freedoms, to the American way of life, and so on and so on. Really? Both rejected happiness as a primary goal for individuals and societies. The solution is not for the rich Western countries to receive all immigrants, but somehow to try to change the situation which creates massive waves of immigration, and we are completely in this. In spite of protests here and there, we will probably continue to slide towards some kind of apocalypse, awaiting large catastrophes to awaken us. more disjointed. In our human universe, power, in the sense of exerting authority, is something much more mysterious, even irrational. So it seems to me likely we will see tonight not only deep differences, but also surprising agreement on deep questions. He did voice support for free education and universal health care as necessary for people to reach their potentials and pointed to the economic success of China, a quasi-capitalist system without democracy. El denominado "Debate del siglo" entre el filsofo y socilogo esloveno Slavoj iek y el psiclogo canadiense Jordan Peterson, fue uno de los eventos intelectuales de mayor trascendencia del ltimo tiempo. Id like the share the debate with a hearing impaired friend. They are not limited to the mating season. After writing less than nothing, zizek thought that he didn't yet get to the basic thought, that is the reason he wrote absolute recoil, a more difficult book than less than nothing, according. Blackwood. What qualifies them to pass a judgement in such a delicate matter? Answer (1 of 5): Well, that 'debate' occurred in April of 2019. In his turn, the self-proclaimed pessimist Zizek didnt always stick the larger economic topics, and did not want to be called communist. The Peterson-iek debate, officially titled Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism, was a debate between the Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson (a clinical psychologist and critic of Marxism) and the Slovenian philosopher Slavoj iek (a psychoanalyst and Hegelian) on the relationship between Marxism, capitalism, and happiness.Moderated by Stephen J. Blackwood, it was held before an . I cannot but notice the irony of how Peterson and I, the participants in this duel of the century, are both marginalised by the official academic community. Freedom and responsibility hurt they require an effort, and the highest function of an authentic master is to literally to awake in us to our freedom. Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning. I cannot but notice the irony of how Peterson and I, the participants in this duel of the century, are both marginalised by the official academic community. [19] Harrison Fluss and Sam Miller of Jacobin reported that Peterson made many factual errors, such as misunderstanding the labour theory of value, incorrectly associating Marx broadly with identity politics, and denying the existence of a Marxist philosophy of nature. The paper contains a long digression about all the reasons the Soviet Union was terrible. Please note, during tonight's presentation, video, audio, and flash photography is prohibited and we have a strict zero, tolerance policy for any heckling or disruption. Therefore they retreat. Secret Spice Girls dance parties of the wives of anti-western morality police. Of course, we are also natural beings, and our DNA as we all know overlaps I may be wrong around 98% with some monkeys. [1], Around 3,000 people were in Meridian Hall in Toronto for the event. The rest of the debate was (if memory serves) also interesting, but it gets even Like I said before, I appreciated immensely that both men seemed pretty much on [16][17] iek was also critical of the multiculturalist liberals who espouse identity politics and that Western countries should rather fix the situation in immigrants' home countries than accept them. It develops like French cuisine. Book deals for political prisoners still in jail. communism", though fittingly this drive was much more centralized). [2][16][17][18] In the end, they both agreed that happiness is rather a byproduct of life itself. They didnt understand what is happening to them with military defeat, economic crisis, what they perceived as moral decay, and so on. This Was An Interesting Debate. We are responsible for our burdens. Ideology, Logos & Belief with Transliminal Media . It has been said of the debate that "nothing is a greater waste of time." Tickets to the livestream are $14.95, and admission to the venue itself was running as high as $1,500. And what about foreign interventions in Iraq and Syria, or by our proxies like Saudi Arabia in Yemen? The Petersoniek debate, officially titled Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism, was a debate between the Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson (a clinical psychologist and critic of Marxism) and the Slovenian philosopher Slavoj iek (a psychoanalyst and Hegelian) on the relationship between Marxism, capitalism, and happiness. Globalnews.ca your source for the latest news on presidential debate. I'd say this reminds me a lot of what I've seen from him wanted to review a couple of passages and i didnt need to go through the video! Before you say, its a utopia, I will tell you just think about in what way the market already functions today. As the debate ostensibly revolved around comparing capitalism to Marxism, Peterson spent the majority of his 30-minute introduction assailing The Communist Manifesto, in fact coming up with 10 reasons against it. It can well secretly invert the standard renunciation accomplished to benefit others. Peterson is his usual intensely-driven professorial self, which I personally He said things like Marx thought the proletariat was good and the bourgeoisie was evil. Peterson's opening remarks were disappointing even for his fans in the audience. But there was one truly fascinating moment in the evening. But, a danger lurks here, that of a subtly reversal: dont fall in love thats my position with your suffering. Far from pushing us too far, the Left is gradually losing its ground already for decades. I have a hard time understanding Zizek, and am admittedly completely out of my depth when it comes to philosophy and Marxism and all the nitty gritty. A democracy this logic to the political space in spite of all differences in competence, the ultimate decision should stay with all of us. meaningful cause beyond the mere struggle for pleasurable survival. I always thought that neoliberalism is a fake term. With anti-Semitism, we are approaching the topic of telling stories. "post-modern neo-marxists" and it's strange not to understand or at least know The same goes also from godless, Stalinist Communists they are the ultimate proof of it. Peterson noted at the outset that he'd set a personal milestone: StubHub tickets to the debate were going for more money than Maple Leafs playoff ticketsa big deal in Toronto. His thoughts on social constructionism vs evolutionary psychology (comparing The statement has some interesting ideas though, including the statement that Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM35zlrE01k. The wager of democracy is that we should not give all power to competent experts, because precisely Communists in power who, legitimise this rule, by posing as fake experts. Learn how your comment data is processed. Doctor Slavoj iek is as philosopher. The recent debate between Slavoj Zizek and Jordan Peterson lived up to the hype. ridiculing the form. All such returns are today a post-modern fake. This I think is the true game changed. ", "Video: Analizirali Smo 'Filozofsku Debatu Stoljea': Pred prepunom dvoranom umove 'ukrstili' iek i Peterson, debata ostavila mlak dojam", "The Jordan PetersonSlavoj iek debate was good for something", "Why Conservatives Get Karl Marx Very, Very Wrong", "What I Learned at the 'Debate' Between Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek", "How Zizek Should Have Replied to Jordan Peterson", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Petersoniek_debate&oldid=1142515270, This page was last edited on 2 March 2023, at 21:02. Peterson opens with a 30-minutes speech where he criticizes the communist The Church of England is debating if believers should stop using gendered language when talking about God. In intellectual circles, the recent debate of the century between the Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson and Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Zizek was a real heavyweight bout. So, how to act? Peterson was humiliated deeply in it, having to admit he'd never read any Marx despite demonizing him for years, and only having skimmed one of Marx' books before showing up to debate Marxism with an actual Marx scholar (among other. Having previously enjoyed and written about both Slavoj Zizek and Jordan Billed as "The Debate of the Century", its official title was "Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism". The debate itself was framed as a free-spirited competition, "Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism" two ideologies enter the ring, and in a world where we are free to think for ourselves, the true ideology would emerge victorious as 'truth.' Somehow hectoring mobs have managed to turn him into an icon of all they are not. So, I dont accept any cheap optimism. Iran is a land of contradictions where oppression and freedom uneasily coexist. Zizek versus Peterson Peterson argues against the postmodern neo-Marxist position held by, in his terms, "the radical left." This position emerged during the '60s but was initiated by the Frankfurt School, which emerged after World War II as a response to the rise of fascism in Europe. with only surface differences (some, though not all, could be chalked to their Forced marriages and homophobia is ok, just as long as they are limited to another country which is otherwise fully included in the world market. But, are the Chinese any happier for all that? The paper contains a close reading of the Manifesto. Postmodernism: History and Diagnosis Transcript Dr. Jordan Peterson 2019-05-17T08:28:01-04:00. Just remember the outcry against my critique of LGBT+ ideology, and Im sure that if the leading figures were to be asked if I were fit to stand for them, they would turn in their graves even if they are still alive. His comments on one of the greatest feats of human rhetoric were full of expressions like You have to give the devil his due and This is a weird one and Almost all ideas are wrong. Jacques Lacan wrote something paradoxical but deeply true, that even if what a jealous husband claims his wife that she sleeps with other men is all true, his jealously is nonetheless pathological. In such times of urgency, when we know we have to act but dont know how to act, thinking is needed. Peterson and iek represent a basic fact of intellectual life in the twenty-first century: we are defined by our enemies. If Peterson was an ill-prepared prof, iek was a columnist stitching together a bunch of 1,000-worders. Zizek's conclusion is, in his words "pessimistic": we will continue to slide Zizek expressed his agreement with Petersons critique of PC culture, pointing out that he is attacked as much by the Left that he supposedly represents as the right. He seemed, in person, quite gentle. 2 define the topic, if . Privacy Policy. Presidential debate 2020 RECAP What happened in the first election from www.the-sun.com. For more information, please see our His he event was billed as the debate of the century, The Rumble in the Realm of the Mind, and it did have the feel of a heavyweight boxing match: Jordan Peterson, local boy, against the slapdash Slovenian, Jordan Peterson, Canadian psychology professor and author. Not only are we not allowed cheap excuses for not doing our duty, duty itself should not serve as an excuse. Zizek called out for the necessity of addressing climate change while also focusing on such issues as Bernie Sanders, whom he called an old-fashioned moralist. Zizek sees Sanders as being unfairly portrayed as a radical. However, this is not enough. cordial and respectful, something I really appreciated. The title of the debate was "Happiness: Capitalism v. Marxism." The structure of the debate was that each participant presented a thirty-minute introduction followed by a series of brief ten-minute responses to one another. This is a pity, because Peterson made an argument I have seen many times, one which is incredibly easy to beat." Egalitarianism often de facto means, I am ready to renounce something so that others will also not have it. Why would the proletariat be more capable of leading? So, I agree that human life of freedom and dignity does not strongest point. My hero is here a black lady, Tarana Burke, who created the #MeToo campaign more than a decade ago. semi-intentionally quite funny. They needed enemies, needed combat, because in their solitudes, they had so little to offer.. Again, the wager of democracy is that and thats the subtle thing not against competence and so on, but that political power and competence or expertise should be kept apart. When I was younger to give you a critical example there was in Germany with obsession with the dying of forests with predictions that in a couple of decades Europe would be without forests. The debate, rightly or wrongly, permanently situated iek as Peterson's opposite in the war for young minds. It is todays capitalism that equalizers us too much and causes the loss of many talents. [7], Peterson said he could meet "any time, any place"[1][4][8] to debate and it was announced on 28 February 2019 that the debate was scheduled for 19 April 2019. The twentieth century left was defined by its opposition to the truth fundamental tendencies of modernity: the reign of capital with its aggressive market competition, the authoritarian bureaucratic state power. Equality can also mean and thats the equality I advocate creating the space for as many as possible individuals to develop their different potentials. Below is the transcript of zizek's introductory statement. They argued whether capitalism or communism would be the best economic and political system. If you're curious, here's the timestamp for the joke. The experience that we have of our lives from within, the story we tell ourselves about ourselves, in order to account for what we are doing is and this is what I call ideology fundamentally a lie. But I nonetheless found it interesting. Are you also ready to affirm that Hitler was our enemy because his story was not heard? Peterson and Zizek Debate - transcribed by John Li - johnmhli@berkeley.edu - 916 623 5512 - https://chicago.academia.edu/JohnLi - // I used both voice to text software and then a manual read through - there are still plenty of transcription errors I havent caught and corrected (I didnt expect this to come out to be over 20 pages and how Petersons (native speaker of English) has been the harder one to transcribe. agreement (as well they should, adopting neither deluded far-left or far-right Instead they often engage in self-destructive behavior. Tonight, "philosopher" Slavoj iek will debate "psychologist" Jordan Peterson in Toronto, ostensibly on the subject of Capitalism vs. Marxism. it, or in the effort to actualise our inner potentials. China in the last decades is arguably the greatest economic success story in human history. And sure, the level of the discussion might have been unappealing to all the Is such a change a utopia? We live in one and the same world which is more and more interconnected. All these antagonisms concern what Marx called commons the shared substance of our social being. vastly different backgrounds). interrupts himself to add "I will finish immediately" before finishing the joke. Look at Bernie Sanders program. Happiness is a confused notion, basically it relies on the subjects inability or unreadiness to fully confront the consequences of his / her / their desire. Both Zizek and Peterson transcend their titles, their disciplines, and the academy, just as this debate we hope will transcend purely economic questions by situating those in the frame of happiness of human flourishing itself. there is a link, all the more difficult to follow in the spoken form. Zizek: The paradox to be happy there not a crucial misunderstanding here. Peterson retreats into the integrity of character and Judeo-Christian values as he sees them. They passionately support LGBT, they advocate charities and so on. On April 19th, at the Sony Centre in Toronto, these two celebrated thinkers (and Big Think contributors) went head to head in a duel promisingly-dubbed Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism. consist just in searching for happiness, no matter how much we spiritualise Slavoj Zizek and Jordan Peterson debate on the concept of Happiness: Capitalism vs Marxism. I encourage you to watch the video or read the transcript One interesting point Zizek and Peterson both seemed to agree on is the opinion that humans arent strictly rational beings. Refresh the. But when youve said that, youve said everything. But if violence perpetuated in the name of an idea is supposed to disqualify the idea, then more people have died in the name of communism and nationalism than any other idea. Next point. Below is the transcript of Zizek's introductory statement. It was billed as a meeting of titans and that it was not. "If you have a good theory, forget about the reality. iek asked what Peterson meant by cultural Marxists when postmodern thinkers, like Foucault, werent Marxist at all. You're currently offline; make sure to connect for latest articles. You know, its not very often that you see a country's, largest theatre packed for an intellectual debate, but that's what we're all here for tonight. But, it is instantly clear how this self-denigration brings a profit of its own. But is this really the lesson to be learned from mob killing, looting and burning on behalf of religion? There is no simple democratic solution here. It's hard not to crack up when out of time for They are both highly attuned to ideology and the mechanisms of power, and yet they are not principally political thinkers. Posted on August 20, 2021 by David Roman. Studies suggest that meditation can quiet the restless brain. When somebody tries to convince me, in spite of all these problems, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, my instant reply is, Yes, and its another train coming towards us. It was officially titled Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism, and was drummed up thoroughly. Everything was permitted to them as they perceived themselves as direct instrument of their divinity of historical necessity, as progress towards communism. Christ was justified by the fact of being Gods son not by his competencies or capacities, as Kierkegaard put it Every good student of theology can put things better than Christ. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Can a giant lobster analogy ever replace a sense of humour? On the Zizek-Peterson 'debate' Some folks have been complaining that the debate was disappointing because it wasn't a debate, or because the debaters don't have sufficient intellectual. Email: mfedorovsky@gmail.com Resumen: La presente colaboracin es una resea sobre el debate llevado a cabo entre los intelectuales de izquierda y derecha, Transcripts | Jordan Peterson An archive of transcribed public lectures, interviews, podcasts, and YouTube videos. Through this renouncing of their particular roots, multi-cultural liberals reserve for themselves the universal position: gracefully soliciting others to assert their particular identify. back to this pre-modern state of affairs. The debate can best be seen as a collection of interesting ideas from both The true opposite of egotist self-love is not altruism a concern for the common good but envy, resentment, which makes me act against my own interests. Does Donald Trump stand for traditional values? Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. Along the same lines, one could same that if most of the Nazi claims about Jews they exploit Germans, the seduce German girls were true, which they were not of course, their anti-Semitism would still be a pathological phenomenon, because it ignored the true reason why the Nazis needed anti-Semitism. In this short passage, which is dropped as quickly as it is picked up by Zizek, you have what's at the center of an entire intellectual life, a life devoted to formalizing a new and unorthodox. But even it its extreme form opening up our borders to the refugees, treating them like one of us they only provide what in medicine is called a symptomatic treatment. Peterson was an expert on this subject, at least. wrote about commons before). History and diagnosis transcript dr. Peterson discussing "happiness, capitalism vs. Extracto del debate realizado el 19 04 19 entre el psiclogo clnico y crtico cultural jordan peterson y el filsofo y psicoanalista slavoj . [15], Peterson's opening monologue was a reading and critical analysis of The Communist Manifesto. He is a dazzling. [1][14] Its topic was which "political-economic model provided the great opportunity for human happiness: capitalism or Marxism". divinity) that could impose meaning from above, and how it's impossible to go So, what about the balance equality and hierarchy? Second on how modernity is characterized by the absence of authority (and Hundreds of millions raised from poverty into middle class existence. Capitalism threatens the commons due to its it's made of many idea nuggets only tenuously linked to one other although Zizek will suit up for Team M and Peterson will wear the "C" on his hometown jersey. Here refugees are created. Still, that criticism would be salutary for most "communists" A French guy gave me this idea, that the origin of many famous French dishes or drinks is that when they wanted to produce a standard piece of food or drink, something went wrong, but then they realised that this failure can be resold as success. Bonus: Zizek on the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Zizek on the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Todays China combines these two features in its extreme form strong, totalitarian state, state-wide capitalist dynamics. Warlords who rule provinces there are always dealing with Western companies, selling them minerals where would our computers be without coltan from Congo? By Tom Bartlett April 4, 2019 If you want tickets for the forthcoming showdown between Jordan Peterson and Slavoj Zizek, which will be held later this month in Toronto, better act fast: There. Most of the attacks on me are from left-liberals, he began, hoping that they would be turning in their graves even if they were still alive. And its important to note they do it on behalf of the majority of people. imblazintwo 4 yr. ago Please join. It seems that our countries are run relatively well, but is the mess the so-called rogue countries find themselves in not connected to how we interact with them? Last night, Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek debated each other at the Sony Centre in Toronto. Once traditional authority loses its substantial power, it is not possible to return to it. Peterson is neither a racist nor a misogynist. They both wanted the same thing: capitalism with regulation, which is what every sane person wants. Its trademarks universal health care, free education, and so on are continually diminished. El debate Peterson-iek, oficialmente titulado Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism, fue un debate entre el psiclogo canadiense Jordan Peterson (crtico del marxismo) y el filsofo esloveno Slavoj iek ( comunista y hegeliano) sobre la relacin entre marxismo, capitalismo y felicidad. He couldnt believe it. First of all it's much shorter than Peterson Vs Harris. And here applies the same logic to Christ himself. Furthermore, I find it very hard to ground todays inequalities as they are documented for example by Piketty in his book to ground todays inequalities in different competencies. No. Maybe we should turn around a little bit Marxs famous thesis, in our new century we should say that maybe in the last century we tried all too fast to try the world. El inters que suscit dicho encuentro descansa en gran parte en el carisma de sus protagonistas que con relativo xito han sabido posicionarse como rostros mediticos y . The same true for how today in Europe the anti-immigrant populists deal with the refugees. It also helps to put Zizek's ideas and role in modern political discussion in . Modernity means that yes, we should carry the burden, but the main burden is freedom itself. Peterson had trapped himself into a zero-sum game, Zizek had opened up a. He has not one, sudden cheer, iek shrugs off audience reaction, the University of Ljubljana and a second in psychoanalysis from University, lets hear it for psychoanalysis! In typical Zizek fashion, If there is no such authority in nature, lobsters may have hierarchy, undoubtedly, but the main guy among them does not have authority in this sense. And we should act in a large scale, collective way. Slavoj iek, psychoanalytic philosopher, cultural critic, and Hegelian Marxist. They dont mention communism to legitimise their rule, they prefer the old Confucian notion of a harmonious society. The great surprise of this debate turned out to be how much in common the old-school Marxist and the Canadian identity politics refusenik had. SLAVOJ IEK: . Zizek is particularly culpable here, for Such thinking also underpinned Peterson arguing that no matter what social system you build, communism included, power will always fall to a select group. In Peterson's defense, he did manage to stay much closer to the actual topic of the debate, while Zizek jumped wildly between a dizzying number of subjects. He is now a, Professor at the Institute of Sociology and Philosophy at the University of Ljubljana, and the Director of, the Birbeck Institute for the Humanities at the University of London. A New World Order is emerging, a world of peaceful co-existence of civilisations, but in what way does it function? They were a vague and not particularly informed (by his own admission) reading of The Communist Manifesto. Other than that, multiple commentators (one, two) pointed that the "Debate Incidentally, so that you will not think that I do not know what I am talking about, in Communist countries those in power were obsessed with expanded reproduction, and were not under public control, so the situation was even worse. Share Highlights of the debate of the century: Jordan Peterson and Slavoj Zizek on Facebook, Share Highlights of the debate of the century: Jordan Peterson and Slavoj Zizek on Twitter, Share Highlights of the debate of the century: Jordan Peterson and Slavoj Zizek on LinkedIn, Subscribe for counterintuitive, surprising, and impactful stories delivered to your inbox every Thursday, Slavoj iek vs Jordan Peterson Debate Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism (Apr 2019), Why winning isnt the real purpose of arguing. They were a vague and not particularly informed (by his own admission) reading of The Communist Manifesto. Canadian bill prohibiting discrimination based on gender, "Jordan Peterson, Slavoj Zizek each draw fans at sold-out debate", "The 'debate of the century': what happened when Jordan Peterson debated Slavoj iek", "How Anti-Leftism Has Made Jordan Peterson a Mark for Fascist Propaganda", "There Is No One to Cheer for in the Potential Battle Between Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek", "Why do people find Jordan Peterson so convincing?
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